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User talk:Helpdeskninja
You don't have any alternative form of contact listed here, so I'll just post this here. Stealing people's artwork, altering them, and then using them for other things without direct permission from the artist, especially without even being able to give credit to that artist, is illegal. Images posted on the internet are still the property of their creator or whoever may have purchased those rights from them. Please produce a source for the images you have posted within the next week and it will be determined if they should be removed. --User:Eupheria I would like to think that this sort of thing falls under Chapter 107 of the Copyright Law allowing for Fair Use. If it doesn't then that would seem to make the vast majority of online creative works some form of copyright infringement. The issue of copyright has become so muddled recently however that it's nearly impossible to tell exactly what is allowable and what isn't. You are certainly correct that due credit should be given to the original artists. I'm quite happy to do so but as it happens I had saved these images some long time ago and lost any record of where they had come from. This has made tracking down the original source fairly difficult. I was able to find a name and a year for the image of Pellinor Runegear, and have credited such in the file, but it would appear that the webpage I got the image of Esslar from has since gone offline and I can find no reference to the original artist/copyright holder. In either case the issue of whether these images are correct or not is justifiably moot. I wouldn't favor someone coming onto any of my webpages and posting material I didn't approve of. I fully expect to the same is true of your perspective. I'm sure you'll take whatever actions you feel are appropriate and rightly so. I apologize for any inconvenience. --Helpdeskninja 18:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC) Fair use is something that is used to defend far too many things. Unfortunately, it is called on too many things created by artists that, also unfortunately, don't know their rights well enough to protect their work and/or send cease and desists. It is not really that the issue of copyright is muddled so much as there is an overwhelming belief that fair use means that if it's posted on the internet then anyone has a right to use it for anything. This simply is NOT true. Here is a link to the copyright laws, specifically to Chapter 107. I would suggest reading the law before you cite it. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107 To quote Cynthea Cotton, a professional illustrator with more experience dealing with copyright infringements on her work than anyone should ever have, "Fair use is when someone borrows art, with proper citation back to the artist 'for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.' Fair use is so academics, scholars, reporters/critics can use portions of the art to report on/critic/analyze/study the art, it isn’t for people to take it, mess it around/chop pieces out and call it fair use. That would be INFRINGEMENT." I don't believe this falls under any of those areas and is therefore not covered under fair use. If you want an image on your character pages, instead of using Google image search, try taking a screenshot, using model viewer, or commissioning work from some of our fabulous artists right here on ER. I believe Caela does commissions, and if her style isn't what you're looking for there are many others out there that would probably be happy to do something for you. --User:Eupheria I'd rather not get wrapped up in an argument over the topic. I have read the law and I've followed the issue through the news as it's continued to develop over the years. I feel safe saying that it is an ambiguous set of laws that, like many of our laws, truly deserves a good overhaul so that it can be applied fairly simply to the modern world. The vast majority of the creative content on the internet, to include stories about a fantasy world "owned" by a commercial company, would infringe on the letter of the law. Artists need to be able to protect their lively-hood (mind you, I don't believe I have impacted that lively-hood with any action I've taken) but the not-original-artist should also be free, to some extent, to be able to create something new with that work. In an ideal world these two things would not be mutually exclusive. In either case, I don't edit these pics to take or claim ownership of them or even (well, not entirely) to have cool, fancy picture of my characters. I enjoy the process of finding a picture and shifting it to match my characters. It's the making not the having; much like when I write an RP story. I have attempted, long and often, to draw my own pictures but sadly I've never had that ability. I inevitably wind up with a muddle. This is something I can do however, and something I personally enjoy. That image of Pellinor started as a very rough sketch and I took the better part of two weeks cleaning it and coloring it, not so I'd have a pic of my odd-ball dwarf, who's name comes from a story written long before copyright was conceived, but because it was enjoyable for me to do so. In either case, I've done as I can and I guess it's up to you and yours whether the applicable images will remain or be removed. Either way, have a good weekend. --Helpdeskninja 23:26, 7 September 2007 (UTC) ---- "I'd rather not get wrapped up in an argument over the topic." I am giving an official response, anyway. We are not lawyers or crusaders, here. We all know that this topic is sensitive enough to cause problems if given the ability. We will not set a precedent of taking copyrighted material and placing it on this site without permission from the creators, or even proper attribution. We are responsible for maintaining a stable site for users to place their fan-based content. Taking the fighters' side on a hot-button legal issue threatens that responsibility. The Earthen Ring Wiki will not be responsible for threatening the legal stability of its site or the Wikia network. Unless you can provide us with very specific court records which prove that the United States judicial branch supports the activity of editing artists' content without their knowledge or consent, then using it for public activities, I will count this as a hazardous issue for the site's mission statement. The moment it went on the Wikia's servers for public display, it left the realm of personal use and became profit-generating content (Ads by Google, anyone?). The only way that posting the material on this site would be under Fair Use to provide for educational, criticism, comment, news, or academia. Nothing on this site does that. We have to remove the images for legality's sake. It is legal for you to place the content on this site if you have the artists' permissions. Really, ask some of your friends if they have even the slightest art skills. You may be surprised who you will find around you that would like to make something for you and let you put it online. Are you in any guilds? As a note, you are not being picked on. We are going to check for images posted without attribution, remove those, and place a firm stance on this issue on the ER Wiki for all to easily read. This is not the first case of this issue, but we would like for it to be the last. --Lilithia 00:58, 8 September 2007 (UTC)